June 23, 2003

Gwynn a rookie no more

San Diego State coach reflects on his first year

By Sean Ryan

sean@collegebaseballinsider.com @collbaseball

OMAHA, Neb. – Tony Gwynn is enjoying his first College World Series.

Sitting in the press box at Rosenblatt Stadium, he’s quick to spit out “knock” as a player on Rice or Stanford strokes a base hit. During the third inning of Sunday’s second game of the best-of-three series to decide the national championship, Stanford had men on second and third with no outs. Gwynn, in town to offer analysis to ESPN and to learn what it takes to get to Omaha, philosophizes “two ground balls means two runs.”

That’s the hitter, make that pure hitter, coming out in Tony Gywnn.

But it’s not that easy when it comes to college baseball.

Gwynn likely learned that when the Cardinal failed to get one ground ball, but did score both runs, one on a wild pitch, the other on an excuse-me single by Carlos Quentin. He definitely saw it enough times during his first season as head coach of San Diego State, his alma mater.

Gwynn, who totaled 3,143 hits during his 20-year career in which he hit .338 for the San Diego Padres and is a strong bet to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer, sat down with CBI’s Sean Ryan to talk about that first year – from his first game to son Anthony being taken in the second round of the Major League Draft by the Milwaukee Brewers, and everything in between. And as often is the case, Gwynn, who never struck out more than 40 times in a season, was animated and excited, smiling and laughing in mid-sentence and appearing to enjoy chatting about his new career.

Gwynn even entertained a few questions from ESPN analyst Harold Reynolds, who stopped by to take Gwynn down to the field to meet Rice’s Vincent Sinisi, a huge Gwynn fan.

CBI: You’ve got one year under your belt, what are your first impressions?

Gwynn: First impressions are that the game is better than I thought (laughs). Players are bigger and stronger. I think looking back on it, I think you have to emphasize the teaching aspect a whole lot more than I thought. In my case, I think I assumed guys already knew how to play the game, and you kind of focus on the specialties of the game. And I was wrong. It was a big mistake. You make your adjustments and next fall, we’re going to be [spending] a whole lot of time in the classroom, really teaching, really emphasizing the important parts of the game: bunting, baserunning, fielding, getting in position, all those things.

Coming here for the first time, it just kind of brings home the point that all these teams that get to the College World Series are very schooled, very disciplined in their approach. At the college level, you really have to, I think, spend a whole lot more time teaching now, even more so than I thought.
 

CBI: What was it like your first game as a manager?

Gwynn: Scared to death, really (laughs). I was probably more nervous about it than my team was. We opened at Arizona State.

CBI: That was fun…(sarcasm)

Gwynn: It was, it was fun. They came in, I think they were 6-0 or 7-0 and it’s our first game. All winter long I tried to get these guys to believe they were just as good as anybody, it really boils down to the execution. And for six innings man, it was going perfect. 5-1 lead, just doing everything right, my pitcher’s throwing strikes, but he had racked up a lot of pitchers. Like I’ve been saying, you get close to that 100-mark, I get a little nervous. And I pulled him. I had my bullpen all set up and ready to go. We gave up two in the sixth, two in the seventh and two in the eighth, and we lost 7-5. And really, it was kind of like our season was going to be like that a lot. Looking back on it, I wasn’t frustrated. They just out-executed us. We didn’t do the things we needed to do.

From that point on, I think I got better as we went along. Early on, I made some mistakes, you know lineup-card mistakes. When you take the lineup cards out there, not standing to hear what the ground rules are going to be. I made some bonehead mistakes. But, you know, for a first-year coach, I think I did all right. I know I’m going to get better as we go along. But still, you’re kicking yourself sometimes for some of the decisions that you make, and I think every coach does that.

CBI: Continuing that question, your first win, what was that like?

Gwynn: First win was at UC Santa Barbara. We lost the first four. And Game 5 we’re playing UC Santa Barbara, and we won pretty easily that day. I think it was 10-3 or 10-2. And guys coming over and congratulating you on your first win and all of that. So it was nice. From that point, we had the longest winning streak of the year. We proceeded to win three more games (laughing), and we won four in a row and got even at 4-4. But yeah, that first win was kind of nice. Coaches hooked me up, had some stuff sent to my room.

CBI: What’d you get sent to your room? You get any phone calls or anything?

Gwynn: Calls from players and ex-teammates, yeah. Bruce Bochy happened to be in Santa Barbara at the time, gave me a call and came over to see me the next day. Tim Flannery was in town and gave me a call. My brother called me. It was really nice, it was stuff you didn’t think about.

CBI: With that, what was the most unexpected thing or the most unexpected call or gift?

Gwynn: At the time, I was just trying to get a win. We were 0-4, I didn’t think about it being your first win and people thinking enough to call you. I hadn’t thought that far along. I was just trying to get us off the snide and get a win. It was good, it was nice. All of it was unexpected, but having a chance to look back on it, yeah, it was really nice.

CBI: Was your credibility an instant thing with players being on your side right away, or were there skeptics among the team or the administration?

Gwynn: I’m sure there are. I’m not naïve enough to think everybody was looking forward to it. I think the credibility factor was there because of what I’d done both on the field and with the administration. But I think there were doubts in both places, like there would be. People want to see what you can do, they want to see what you’re about. They want to see that you’re going to follow through on what you’re going to do. I said we’re going to upgrade the schedule, I said we’re going to have better equipment, I said we’re going to be able to raise money and do things. So everybody was kind of sitting back waiting to see what’s going to happen. Let’s see what type of team he’s going to have.

I’m a confident guy, I just believe that if we go out there and do the things we need to do, we’re going to be successful. It’s pure and simple. I still believe that. And even though we weren’t as successful as I’d like us to be, that’s how I’m going to approach it, like we’re gonna be. I’m sure there are skeptics out there.

The question I got asked the most was: Most successful players have a tough time coaching, for whatever reasons. And my thought on that is that most successful players expect guys to play the way that they played. And I know that I can’t do that. I know I can’t expect people to step up to the plate and had the approach that I had or swing the bat the way I did. That’s unfair to them. My job is to try to take what they have and make it better. That’s how I approach it.

To go 29-32 like we did, I’m sure there are a lot of people out there saying maybe that’s what happened, maybe he expected them to play like I played. The way my team hit is completely different than how I hit. My son was about the closest thing to being a contact hitter in my lineup, and even my son will tell you that he struck out more than I struck out in three or four years.

CBI: That was my next question. You had the opportunity to coach your son. Talk about that experience. Was it awkward, fun, convenient?

Gwynn: It was fun. For me, I think it was fun. I hope he had fun. I had the time of my life watching him really mature between his sophomore and junior seasons. I had to threaten him with not getting any playing time to go play summer ball this last summer.

When he left, he was upset. A couple of my guys were upset because I sent them to summer ball. But when they cam back, they loved me for sending them. One of the things I tried to do last year was explain to these guys that hey, I’ve lived life longer than ya’ll. I’ve had experience. I’ve had more experience than you guys have been able to have. So sometimes you’re not going to agree with [me] but just try it and see what happens. And summer ball was one of them. My son hated the fact that I was making him go play summer ball. He just wanted to hang out in San Diego all summer. I said, no man, you need to go play. He was mad, and my wife was mad.

We were going to send him to Alaska. And he said well, if I’m going to go, I might as well go to the Cape. So we called, and begged some team to take him on and the next thing you know, he’s an all-Cape Cod performer, calling me every week thanking me for sending him and making him go. When he came back, he was a different guy just a completely different player, a more confident player, a guy who believed in his abilities. Even this year, he got off to a real slow start. I was probably more flustered with it than he was, and he just kind of knew it was going to turn around. And it did. And when it did, he came on like gangbusters, and he finished hitting about .360 and he scored a lot of runs, stole a lot of bases, was the best defensive player I saw all year long.

And like I said, for me it was a lot of fun, watching him mature and watching him grow. I’d like to think in his case he felt the same way but to be honest, I don’t know, because I rant and rave a lot. I’m sure there were times because as a coach, when people make mistakes, I kind of point it out right then and there, I don’t believe in waiting until the end of the game…I do it right then and there, I pull them aside, or I yell or whatever and get it out. Let them know and let his teammates know we can’t afford to make these mistakes. So whether that’s good or bad, I don’t know. I just know to me that’s the right way to do it, and that’s how I’m going to do it. As the year went on, I think they came to expect that every time we lost, I had to go over the mistakes. Because I told them, I’m gong to dwell on the negatives. That’s my job as a coach is to focus in on the negatives. Yes we do some things very well and I’ll pat you on the back when I need to pat you on the back.

CBI: You got a nice reward at the end of season, when Anthony was drafted by the Brewers. Talk about the feeling and talk about the opportunity…it’s an organization that on the surface appears to be a good fit.

Gwynn: Yeah, I agree. I told him that, too. It’s not so much getting caught up with how much money you get. You want to be a first-round pick, yes. But the bottom line is getting the opportunity, because if you get the opportunity to get to the big leagues, man, that signing bonus stuff is chump change compared to having the opportunity to play.

That’s what I fretted over, because when you start to slip in that first round and get to the bottom of that first round, those are all the good teams. You know the Yankees, the Braves, the Dodgers, the Giants. Those are teams that are year in, year out in the hunt. I figured he wasn’t going early in the first round, so honestly, I was hoping he’d go early in the second. That being the case, there were four teams, right there at the top: Tampa, Detroit, Milwaukee, San Diego. All four of them, I felt like, presented him with a real good opportunity to advance through the minors quickly if he produced. So secretly, I’m like sweating it out hoping one of those four teams took him.

He was at home I think hoping to go in the first round. I never talked to him about it. I told him it’s the opportunity, that’s the thing you should be looking at.

The whole time, I thought the Padres were going to take him.

CBI: Did they get the chance in the second round?

Gwynn: No they didn’t. They picked two picks after Milwaukee.

CBI: Do you think they would have taken him?

Gwynn: They would have taken him. They told me they would have taken him. And they called and said he’s still on the board, if he’s there in the second round, we’re going to take him. And they had called me before: Was I going to have a problem if they took him? I said heck no, just hoping he gets the opportunity. Right before Milwaukee picked, Anthony picked up the phone and said did anybody call? I said no, nobody called but the Padres. So we all thought he was going to the Padres.

So two picks later, the Brewers said they select Anthony Gwynn, outfielder from San Diego State and AHHHHHHHH!!! (jubilant scream). I was thrilled, I really was. Nothing against the Padres or anything, but I think the expectations would have been a whole lot higher in San Diego had he been a Padre. Going to Milwaukee, I think is a great fit for him because the opportunity for advancement is going to be there. All you’ve got to do is perform, put numbers on the board.

He called me last night and signed yesterday. He’s up in Milwaukee now working out with the big-league club. They’re going to send him to Beloit, Wisconsin on Monday, so I’m going to drive up there after this is over, spend the day with him and hopefully watch him play.

The whole process for me has been awesome. As a parent, my chest is out here (holds arms out in front of his body). As a coach, I’m proud of the way that he took care of business this year. I used him a lot as an example last year, and I will continue to use him as an example because coming out of high school, he was drafted in the 33rd round and was very upset. [He] said I’m going to go to college, I’m going to prove to people I can play, and I think he did exactly that. And then he becomes a second-round pick. He’s a great example. He did what he was supposed to do in the classroom. On the field, he matured. He got bigger he got stronger. And like I said, as a parent, I’m really extremely proud of what he’s been able to accomplish thus far. Hopefully he’ll keep on going and get better and get an opportunity.

CBI: You’ve already mentioned a couple things, but what are a couple of quick things that impressed you about the college game, and are there any things that really didn’t impress you?

Gwynn: The thing that was impressive was that these kids and how diligent they are, working at their craft, working at their game. The style of play, it was not surprising. But the efficiency in which some of these teams work. Long Beach State, we played Long Beach State twice. I mean, great discipline, great execution, great pitching. Arizona State was an offensive club that could bang with anybody. Just how good these good college teams are, and how much work I have to do as a coach to get to the level of some of these really good college teams is amazing.

I like everything about it, really. The college game is a great game. It’s kind of unfair sometimes…I think we saw a little bit of this when it came time for Regionals. When they picked the national eight, I was kind of surprised because I thought a team like Arizona State had a chance to be a national seed and Texas had a chance to be a national seed. Like I said, I’m a new guy. I’m on the outside looking in. But I can’t see how somebody could host a regional and not be a No. 1 seed…Baylor was the No. 1 seed but they didn’t host… there are some things about the game that being the new guy, I’ve got to try to understand. When I try to put the pieces of the puzzle together, I just kind of think that money is a big factor in the college game. And when you have it, things can work a little bit in your favor, and when you don’t, you’ve got to do it the hard way. For us, that’s part of the game. We have no money. So that’s part of the game, that’s the way we have to try to do things. But I think some of these other schools who play well should be rewarded.

CBI: You get out and take a little BP with the aluminum bat?

Gwynn: I did once. Every now and then, talking about it is not going to get it done. You’ve got to show them. I’ve got bad knees, and it’s hard sometimes to stand in there and take a stroke the way it’s supposed to be done, which is why I retired in the first place. Every now and then, you got to get a bat in your hand, and you got to show a guy how to stay in there on a left-handed slider. I think until the day I die I’ll be able to get up and hit a ball to the left side. So that was not as difficult as I made it out to be. I try not to [hit] because I miss hitting. I really do. I’ll go work with guys in the cage, and I’m throwing BP or whatever, and yeah, you just want to grab a bat and swing, go up there and take a whack. There were many a game where I would be standing there saying, man I wish I could just go up there and hit a ground ball and get this run in. You don’t have to hit a home run, just hit a ground ball and get the run in!!!

CBI: Now that you mention it, throwing BP?

Gwynn: I did, I think I tore my rotator cuff though at our conference tournament.

Harold Reynolds: You hit anybody yet?

Gwynn: No, I didn’t hit anybody. But I threw it, and it just went numb. So I’m going to get it checked when I get home. But that was easy. I enjoyed that. It really helps you to understand hitters?

Harold Reynolds: Did you used to throw batting practice in the winter when you worked out?

Gwynn: No.

Harold Reynolds: So that was the most BP you’ve ever thrown?

Gwynn: Yeah, that’s the most throwing I’ve ever done. I liked it. I think my hitters hated it, especially against left-handers, I couldn’t get the ball away from them, I’d keep it in on them! Right-handers hated me, because I’m always on the outer edge. I’m trying to force these guys to go the other way. I really enjoyed that part of it. I figure I’ll get better at that too, but then I blew my arm out I think. So we might have to hire a BP coach or something to throw BP.

Harold Reynolds: You ever do, like [throw] at the edge of the dirt, like 30 feet?

Gwynn: Yeah, I did that. We tried everything. Sideways flip, backwards flip, I tried all that stuff. These guys would not hold their ground. They’re just jumping out there trying to hook the ball! I’m pretty animated as a coach too. A couple of my guys, I’m sure they hated my guts when I was throwing. It was like: man, come on, I know you can pull a ball, hit a ball the other way, come on stay back, let it get deep!

CBI: Grade yourself, and how do you improve that grade?

Gwynn: Honestly, like a C, the reason why it’s a C is that because offensively, we struck out entirely too much, we didn’t put the ball in play. We hit .290 as a club. In the big leagues, .290 is awesome, but in college .290 is like average. It’s barely average. I’ve got room for improvement.

You can improve your grade by executing a whole lot better. As the years go on, we’ll get better at that part of it to. It’s kind of a combination package. I think guys really didn’t know what to expect from me, and now that they’ve got a year under their belt and now that we’re adding some more athletes to our mix, I think that has a chance to get better. But overall, I’d say a C or C-minus because just in doing a better job of teaching, I should get a C. And I think I can really improve on that. So that’s what I’m going to try to do this upcoming season. Try to do a better job of explaining to guys how we want to do things and then showing them how we want to do things.